GD servers come with Nepthys and other stuff installed, what I was referring to was when players try and "improve" servers, there is definitely performance gained, when leaving the ini alone, it was just an offering, useful advice, no need to call it nonsense.

It takes 2 teamkills to get banned am I right? So player doesn't even know about the rule, until they are 50% on course to a ban. You are trying to insinuate that the only thing different about your server is the level of skill or experience, when in fact there is a real difference in peoples' inis also, but on top of that, you don't equip newcomers with the information they need to stop being banned. When you join the server it looks like any other. There is such a massive difference in the info you have and the info a newcomer has, that why would you enjoy playing against them in such circumstances, that they can ban themselves for nothing.

I had to install Nephthys manually on a GD server. If you leave ini alone, you cannot even change server name, unless you change ini with commands. How is that not nonsense? In addition, its settings are for CONFIGURATION. You configure service if you are a responsible host. One of the settings (timeout?) caused a well-known bug in Unreal engine, but you would recommend hosting bugged server. Other values deal with whether you are hosting server from a dialup home connection or dedicated hosting service or even dedi server. They are configured. 3 unnecessary posts about something that should be common sense.


Teamkillers are dealt with in all online games. DXMP anti-tk tempbans for 1 map or configured amount. If person does not have even a grain of intellect to figure out who is enemy and who is friend (dxmp makes this more blatantly obvious than many other games!).. unless you are insinuating that an average dxmp player is indeed dumb as a shoe, and because normal human beings persecute dumbasses the game is dying?

Newcomer learns if he has to. Have you trained anyone in any profession, in real life? Some things are done in a way they have to be done. Online game where host and moderators bear the responsibility for the entertainment service quality (and sports-level competitive experience) requires that things are done right all the same, lest it affect the service, the experience of the players. You tell me about inability to set up ones buttons, but what good is a car to a person that cannot drive it? Youtube has plenty of game footage for those that prefer to take the backseat and do not like to play.

synthetic wrote: If you leave ini alone, you cannot even change server name, unless you change ini with commands. How is that not nonsense? In addition, its settings are for CONFIGURATION. You configure service if you are a responsible host. One of the settings (timeout?) caused a well-known bug in Unreal engine, but you would recommend hosting bugged server. Other values deal with whether you are hosting server from a dialup home connection or dedicated hosting service or even dedi server. They are configured. 3 unnecessary posts about something that should be common sense

Cute, so I said you shouldn't change server name? What I said was, a lot of tweaks people do, actually don't work, as it has been noticed by auggers that a fresh GD server actually was better in performance. I've made the suggestion, have nothing more to say.

Teamkillers are dealt with in all online games.

Untrue. The majority of DX servers don't allow teamkilling.

If person does not have even a grain of intellect to figure out who is enemy and who is friend (dxmp makes this more blatantly obvious than many other games!)

Again no-one said beginners are dumb, what I am saying is that they are new to it and you clearly are not.

Have you trained anyone in any profession, in real life?

Actually yes, in a University, two colleges, 3 sales companies and two NGOs, besides coaching hundreds of models.

It's a case of showing people, not telling them. It's also a case of informing people BEFORE the event, rather than after they messed up, with regards to teamkilling.

Also with regards to binding, theory dictates you would let them know they need binds, before killing them. Learning the hard way is important, but not if it destroys patience or confidence in the teacher.

You're allowing players to "choose to punish" people who have done nothing wrong. I did nothing wrong, I was standing still literally, so was the enemy, the fault was not mine, yet I was "punished".

"Dealt with" as in TAKEN CARE OF. This debate was moot from its beginning, but hopefully someone managed to catch few points of reason from my wall of text.



On another note, I want to congratulate several FGS members for trying out classic DXMP or having previous experience in it:

Khaamilus - those of us who have been around know that he and his brother have been auging since 2005-2006, somesuch. No surprise that he has been representing FGS in atdm and adm lately, and played well.

Shadowrunner - getting the hang of it and playing like a real dxmp player.

Chidemocracy - careful 0aug style playing, but dangerous aim. I fear that unless he goes dedicated PowerRecirc he won't get much enjoyment out of Basic/Advanced games with that playstyle.

Mastakilla - what many of you might not know is that he has actually played auged clan war against strong atdm clan, and did well at that.


just some words of praise. i remember playing GODZ Nobody in 0augs in 2004-2005, but I don't know if he auged


I'd rather not play 0aug matches, and have had no presence in any of the other mods for years, but from clan pressure and other circumstances, I realize that 0aug is as close as our match opportunity goes at the present time. Because of this, I looked at your roster some half a year ago and deemed your ideal lineup to represent strong opposition. NoName, Majster, ChinDemoc are but three names that I'd expect from your ideal 0aug turnup, with obviously Mastadutchman and Khaamilus added on top. That is some 5 names right there that have good chances against any other clan in the game. Unfortunately many of them have been inactive because FGS has lacked active presence in the game on a clan level.
If FGS gets a team organized, remember that you have good chances of challenging [HK] as well, as they are fairly active for challenges. Situation with THC is unclear as their clan likely will not accept challenges.

edit: is TunnelNetwork made by IchoTolot or did I mistake something? If so, it is one of the better custom DXMP maps I've come across thus far, and many classic servers have been hosting it.

Ichotolot was my mentor/developer for mapping, but afaik he is not a mapper. Tunnel Network is not listed on PDX but was in existence before 2004, so that gives you some idea when it was made. There is an unauthorized optimized version made by DejaVu/Sike also.

With regards to classic maps, you might want to look at DXMP_Towers_2012, the unreleased update of the 2001 version by Face.

I'm glad to see you hosting Majestic, who knows what we will convince you to host in future

I swear every time I come on these forums it turns into some kind of brawl. I am not seeking for flame wars or fight, but if I get some kind of noob talk (=irrational and completely random uneducated guesses) it is fairly easy to tick me off. If there are certain nooby points being brought out time and time again, I attempt to form some kind of reply that at least some of you would understand.

I respect your particular interests, as well as any sub-cells of DXSP or MP communities, but please do not give me many metabolic end product (ie the entire teamkills thing). Use common sense. If we talk about editing ini files then it is completely idiotic to say anything for it or against it without having the slightest idea what you are talking about. Is randomly changing configuration values a bad thing? Ask Nobody if you don't know the answer. Do GD servers come with optimized configuration files? Nope. How do I know that? Because I spent days learning how to set the server up, from UT and previous DXMP examples (and even a bit of Rune server settings tips that dealt more about the engine than the specific game).

If you change things without having the slightest idea about what things do, you *love* things up, be it user.ini or server settings.

Another noob many metabolic end product is this entire binds thing. I personally would play the game as-is, just because I do not like people automatising everything, but for fucks sake look around in other games and learn how games are played online. Like previously stated, binds will remain even if you lock user.ini edits. Binds are used across all online games (not even exclusive to shooters); and that still leaves the fact that developers did not provide ergonomic default buttons (on the contrary).

Don't listen to what old ladies in the village told you, use your own head and be precise about the issues. If you tell me that its mutators that reduce the server performance, then explain why precisely that is. I have asked people who should know about it, as well as went through several UT threads that mention hosting bulk of mutators. In reality, I have not noticed any impact from the somewhat useful mutators that our server hosted (as compared to recent times when our server has abandoned most of those). Here it also would depend what the mods or mutators do in the server.

Another thing I've noticed, is that just about nobody in Gaming Deluxe has a slightest idea how to host DXMP server. Gathered as much from dealing with their customer service across several individuals. Still, their servers, once they work, are the best we've come across given limited options.


In any case, I am guilty as well for derailing the thread, baited by shadowrunners non-topic sentiments, but let us refocus..

If I may add somewhat on the topic statement, Shadowrunner (who i'd imagine is any potential lineups) saved my ass several times in ATDM today, against overwhelming and stronger team. That Majestic didn't go too bad after all, given the odds. You cannot convince me to host poor maps, but are always welcome to suggest maps that might provide good atdm (adm) experience. We then test and see. Peak was tested across several plays as well.

I take your point but this is hardly a derail:

To be honest with you, I trust Nobody Everyone has a different opinion of what is fair or right in DXMP. The game was designed for less than 100 fps, but how many players are willing to fight at 75 fps? Classic DXMP is not 400 fps.

I would have an admin spectator from each team, watching the other team on cheatview and recording demorecs that ppl can watch after. I would also use a fresh GD ini, no tweaks and have as little possible installed on the server. My 2 cents.

I have no binds, only dualmap. I have no medbind. I have 75 fps capped. I have everything a beginner has. Why do some players have more? The game is dying from lack of new players. Trust me? that is *loving* hilarious.

It's hard to communicate with someone who says there are only a couple of good maps in DXMP. Chees has just worked his balls off on a good map, an import like Amon, but I would imagine it will take 6 years again to convince auggers to host it, just like DXMP_Majestic. There are plenty of maps that would work well in augs, better than A51 for sure. I'm sure plenty of maps could be tidied up for augs.

It's even harder if you say it's "nonsense" when someone doesn't like beginners/players getting banned on the server top of the list.

And my last post clearly was ignoring the argument and moving on. I apologize to Machete, I know nothing was intended by it.

In a 1608 word private message to me,it states that RPG and Hengsha need a different fanbase, it seems to ignore the fact that some of the biggest RPG fans are in fact auggers in your clan. People enjoy variety in many ways, not just gametype, but size of map, types of weapons, types of challenges and so on, ATDM and custom go hand in hand, brothers in arms, mappers are even willing to help atdm as much as they can. I don't see a brawl, more like people making suggestions.

Some of you annoy me tbh. Mappers work on projects and they are swept aside by people who play with augs, without even giving the maps a chance and testing with the option to change the map to suit both augs and non augs and lack the ability to come to a conclusion in a forum based map discussion. 'Things players would like changed on both game types' only non aug players seem to give feed back. Apart from Chinny over the past few months it seems like your letting only one mapper in to the aug world of Deus Ex AND BLOCKING EVERYONE ELSE. Default maps and a few random maps is like an Iceworld hold on 0-augs, most players are sick of same old same old. Just my opinion tbh and don't want to start an argument.

This is Deus Ex, a dieing game with few players. Work together in game, in forum and map discussions and in editing to bring all players maps they enjoy on both levels of game type. Not rocket science! The lack of communication between players and editors is ridiculous!!!

2014 is here! Lets have a resolution to the problems and not repeat the same pathetic announcement topics and points we all know of and fix the issues.
Or is this catch 22 2014.

There are certain expectations that altfire players have for altfire maps, 0augers have for 0aug maps, and that classic dxmp players have for their maps. There is a certain "recent" auger-made map that I cannot host in augs or 0augs because its complete rubbish (movement, geometry providing inferior and boring experience).

I cannot vouch for other hosts, but my clan has no problem trying out maps that could be good for *intended gametype*.

There is a portion of players (0augers and augers alike) that do not like new maps no matter how good. I don't care much for those, but will have to consider removing maps if feedback is overwhelmingly negative.

Back that up synthetic by giving the time for new maps and all your clan members posting in forums and not just in your clan forums for feedback so changes can be made by mappers on every map and every server. Then only rule out or categorize maps for each game type if they work and all agree they work in each game type before setting a map rotation.
Again failure of communication with progression in this field between players/clans and editors is the major downfall for DX being so dead and players leaving . Iceworld map again. Nice map but players get sick of it after 2 hours in 0 aug! Not a good aug map so what to do!! get rid and introduce maps that players want, take suggestions and ideas for a new iceworld map players like and not stick with the same spawn, grab wep and die or kill if lucky!!

synthetic wrote:There are certain expectations that altfire players have for altfire maps, 0augers have for 0aug maps, and that classic dxmp players have for their maps. There is a certain "recent" auger-made map that I cannot host in augs or 0augs because its complete rubbish (movement, geometry providing inferior and boring experience)

I don't doubt you but define inferior please. Iceworld is like 4 brushes and flat, but you host that. So it remains a mystery, the actual brief sometimes isn't clear and to be honest you said it, there's not really a demand, auggers are happy with their maps. Personally speaking, besides Altfire, I've had a 0-aug edit hosted for years and can't complain, but opportunity does drive newcomers in mapping.

Speaking of maps what maps would you want to war on?

The map in question is without a doubt more complex (and I have a feeling you know exactly what map I have in mind), but fails to divide and bring together action in the same manner that iceworld accomplishes in its primitivity. I sometimes have called Iceworld the perfect map that is not a map. It is a blueprint.

The map is play-wise not much different from SniperBox. Indeed, there are few walls to move behind, but a map that is essentially one big corridor with bunch of windows (and an oddly placed extremely spacious bathroom area) just fails to provide any substance to the game. Yes it can be played, but its bloody boring. The balance between geometry and player-leading is completely off. If you look at how Iceworld plays out, you notice that while there is constant action in crowded server, there are certain players you almost never find on that map. Likewise, duel played on Iceworld can lead to curious pauses where you simply fail to find the enemy (more of a coincidence, but largely thanks to its geometry).

it sucks!!

Match server should have latest miniMTL233a2 (not sure if released, was patched yesterday due to crash bug), MTL of course. Don't really care if it has Nephthys or not (unless someone wants to crash our war ). Because there are Gaming Deluxe servers around, we should use one of those for performance.

While it would be easy to use Hivemind server that has all of these things covered, I am just listing necessary requirements for any match server that both parties can agree upon. Blade for example does not host proper speedhack fixes, so it is very easy to cheat in his server. In our server all simpler cheats are effectively blocked. Nobody can fast fire speedhack unless they set up separate cheat programs, in which case we will notice it, if not from anywhere else then from server log.

With MTL+miniMTL233a2 all common cheats are fixed, nobody will be shooting faster unless they are hardcore cheaters. Hivemind does not allow cheating in our clan and I am sure neither does FGS.


I know FGS *used to have* people that wanted to play clan wars. Find those people and don't let them move to other games due to clan inactivity. Because FGS is not experienced in classic DXMP we will not force your hand into playing it, we will be ok with 0augs and hope to see many more of you in our public ADM and ATDM games

Once you have shown enough organisatory capacity to arrange 0aug match, we will consider playing DXAG match with you as a bonus extra (even though 90% of active Hivemind has probably never seen this mod). Because of difficulties finding decent releases and setting up server with decent DXAG maps (i presume?) it'll take longer to organize than 0a match that simply depends on your ability to communicate with your members.

As a side note, I do not intend to play in the clan war, and will prefer that a greener hivemind member has my place. Similar arrangements may be made regarding other lineup slots depending on who is available during the suggested date.

For now, I suggest this Saturday. I am fairly certain FGS will not be able to find your preferred lineup by this date, but let it serve as a motivation.


Initial suggestions:

Date: this Saturday, 4th of January, 2014
Date: Time 4PM UK Time (or later same day if feedback comes in)
Server: Hivemind anti-cheat server (16slot gamingdeluxe); or any gamingdeluxe with patched miniMTL233a2 & MTL
Teams: 4v4 or higher (6v6 may be doable if both clans really try, 3v3 is clanwar already)
Maps: Any maps from our 0a list; or classic selection

Without clan matches DXMP is dead as an online game. Last clan war took place some.. 2 years ago? If that. Sign of active clans, active game, is attempts to schedule matches between clans. While I wish we were able to schedule normal dxmp match of some sort (even BTDM), even 0a match will be a success for BOTH clans as far as activity goes.

Someone in FGS needs to figure out how many fighters they have in what gametypes, assess their battle readiness in those game types, and bring together a team in a game type where challenge is organized.