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Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been busted)


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anax
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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby anax » 15 Dec 2014, 05:32


Yep.

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My fps is capped to 120 and DX restricted to one core, but i counted 3 seperate occasions where my DT value jumped to 175%, so I'm not sure what to do about that yet.

And phantmoon both had 150 fps at times, but their DT values didn't jump as far as mine, and my alptop is shitty, so idk what's going on with that!


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Poor » 15 Dec 2014, 09:14


anax wrote:I have done recording tests with both DXTory and Open Broadcast(er?) Software programs and
I can tell you that if you set a 120 fps limit then there are more frames available, say between 15-30 frames get eaten by DXtory.
Example: for a 30 fps Youtube video (640 x 480 x 32 res), I'll still get 80-90 in-game.


I'm a bit confused as well. What do you mean by "frames get eaten"? Recording software lowers the maximum fps because it consumes processing time. It doesn't take away the frames it records. What I am trying to say is, if you can get 90 fps while recording, that means you can absolutely get 60 fps while recording. And since anything above 60 fps is useless on a 60hz monitor, it makes more sense to limit the framerate to 60 rather than waste CPU usage and electricity.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Ermac » 15 Dec 2014, 21:05


What's the significance of "DT" ? :?


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby synthetic » 15 Dec 2014, 21:20


Current DT display is a bit on the slow side with FPS (which doesnt matter because it shows fps to begin with!) and shows cpu bugs like a pro. Unfortunately, it does not seem to detect third party cheating software that phantom is using, but like I said somewhere already: im not sure we need to even patch this hardcore cheats. Just advban or even rangeban if necessary, and end of story. It takes a really desperate person to run separate program alongside your game just to cheat lol, its another level from simply using higher fps. Another level of noob.

Anyway maybe something can be thought of still.


edit: to explain more precisely what i meant with " im not sure we need to even patch this hardcore cheats"

The program that is mentioned here now and then is so advanced and sophisticated (and quite regularly updated) that considering how our coders do not get paid and how much time the solo effort takes to patch anything, I think the only logical reasoning can be this:

It is not OUR coders' fault they can't patch such a cheat - for above reasons
It is not even our cheaters' fault they can use it - every game will always have noobs
It is the fault of incompetent admins without any sense of responsibility that advanced cheats like this are an issue. At least in DXMP with our handful of people.

You are welcome to argue this reasoning but make sure to check your facts first.


Currently there are 2 players that actively use such cheat program, and 3 or more additional players that can use it anytime they feel like it.
Currently there are zero responsible hosting admins in dxmp (what regards common gametypes and normal public servers).

edit2: on the other hand, dxmp is such a low-profile game that if the program did get patched its not very likely the cheat software devs would bother to do anything about it, although players like Phantom are willing to pay for it.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Ermac » 16 Dec 2014, 01:25


"it does not seem to detect third party cheating software that phantom is using" :-({|=

Why when Dani posts this kinda things on Phant it's funny and when it is you it's strange? :-k


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby anax » 16 Dec 2014, 10:18


Poor wrote:
anax wrote:I have done recording tests with both DXTory and Open Broadcast(er?) Software programs and
I can tell you that if you set a 120 fps limit then there are more frames available, say between 15-30 frames get eaten by DXtory.
Example: for a 30 fps Youtube video (640 x 480 x 32 res), I'll still get 80-90 in-game.


I'm a bit confused as well. What do you mean by "frames get eaten"? Recording software lowers the maximum fps because it consumes processing time. It doesn't take away the frames it records. What I am trying to say is, if you can get 90 fps while recording, that means you can absolutely get 60 fps while recording. And since anything above 60 fps is useless on a 60hz monitor, it makes more sense to limit the framerate to 60 rather than waste CPU usage and electricity.


I can understand your frustration, it's actually more of a metaphor, which i have seen others use, I don't actually mean that I think frames are discarded or whatever else. :bwahaha: Maybe "used up" is a better description idk man.

About the monitors, I can fully understand what you're talking about but I still disagree because of my own tests, if i try to record at 60 fps I experience more of a performance hit than if I recorded gameplay at 90-120 fps.
It works for what i want anyways and I'm too lazy to check how much electric it would consume per evening spent DXing. :)

FAO Ken:
Hey and Ricci are / would be responsible admins IMO and when and if I can get a server up, I will be too, you can say goodbye to the likes of Norse, Phantom.. etc. when I have admin anywhere.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Fear » 16 Dec 2014, 16:51


Ken isn't a cheater.

With that being said it's a known fact she's used most if not all types of cheats the game has to offer at some point or other, and she has a strong knowledge of whatever exploits can be done, which is where her "i'll let my clan cheat in your server" threats come from, because if she wants to, she can and will do, the game has gone to her head that much that she actually will as it eats her up inside when she doesn't like something.

Surprisingly she still has a good standing within the community, and will throw all sorts of nonsense accusations towards pretty much anybody she doesn't like, so any topic that remotely hints to Ken being a peice of scum has credibility in it's own right, since she's a walking ball of arrogance, with a bit of hypocrite and ADHD thrown in.

On a completely seperate note, The Binding Of Isaac: Rebirth is the best game since sliced bread.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Mastakilla » 16 Dec 2014, 17:38


Fear wrote:The Binding Of Isaac: Rebirth is the best game since sliced bread.


Nah, XCOM Enemy Unknown is, also sliced bread isn't a game :-)


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Fear » 16 Dec 2014, 22:40


I notice Kiri playing that, you on her account? or have you logged back into your one.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby ShadowRunner » 16 Dec 2014, 23:47


Ermac, welcome to FGS.

If I run at 90fps the monitor gets hot, so I run at 75fps. I haven't checked lately but I think I get 40-75fps usually. In 2006 I was playing around 20fps and dipping to around 10 probably.

I've been playing almost 10 years. Dan and Ken have been great guys. About Ken, I've seen him mentor people, train people, post tutorials and I never had any personal issue with him, same I would say exactly about Dan.


Last edited by ShadowRunner on 19 Dec 2014, 00:31, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby anax » 17 Dec 2014, 00:42


Mastakilla wrote:
Fear wrote:The Binding Of Isaac: Rebirth is the best game since sliced bread.


Nah, XCOM Enemy Unknown is, also sliced bread isn't a game :-)


Deus Ex tho!


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Poor » 17 Dec 2014, 00:47


Mastakilla wrote:
Fear wrote:The Binding Of Isaac: Rebirth is the best game since sliced bread.


Nah, XCOM Enemy Unknown is, also sliced bread isn't a game :-)


Although there is a new indie game on Steam where you play as a slice of bread.

Spoiler:
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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Mastakilla » 17 Dec 2014, 00:47


Fear wrote:I notice Kiri playing that, you on her account? or have you logged back into your one.


That's me bruv, sharing same account. x


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby synthetic » 17 Dec 2014, 00:58


ShadowRunner wrote:Ermac, welcome to FGS.

If I run at 90fps the monitor gets hot, so I run at 75fps. I haven't checked lately but I think I get 40-75fps usually. In 2006 I was playing around 20fps and dipping to around 10 probably.

I've been playing almost 10 years. Dan and Ken have been great guys. About Ken, I've seen him mentor people, train people, post tutorials and I never had any personal issue with him, same I would say exactly about Dan. I I trust Alex 100%. Of course that doesn't mean Ken did not cheat to win ever, but I am like others, I have no clue anymore, cheating threads are like the ugg boot threads now.

He is also like many competitive types, quick to suspect an innocent person of cheating, but like I said that includes almost all of you competitive types. However when I get pm's which are offensive but at the same time expecting a serious discussion or answer, he's crossed a line with me and I've noticed his politics have shifted from "supportive/liberal ATDM" to "far-right/other people are the problem in DX". edit: I don't agree with his opinion or treatment of Poor either tbh.


I've never cheated to win because that is for people who have not been looked after by their parents as they were still developing a sense of ethics. In a sense cheating in online game signals greater issues within the players personality or psyche, and thus its impact reaches further than mere game. Or in other words, cheaters are not only crappy players, they make for crappy excuse of humans. Normal person doesnt do something like that.

If I've tested some cheat or other (not including funbot or CE as I never got them to work and simply used feedback my friends gave me) I've made sure not to kill any innocent and unsuspecting players. I've actually given a lot of metabolic end product to some players over the decade who did exactly that: tested shite in public server. You just dont do that. Years mature most of us and I am now friends with some of such players, but then again they understand the point just as well as me, now.

This entire talk about me allowing clan to cheat or using bot against phantom is pointless demagogics. Cheating means using advantages otherwise disallowed in game to gain an advantage. Cheating against a cheater is not cheating, its just lame. Even lamer is that nobody bothered to ban our most active player for taking a metabolic end product on everything skill and shooter fun stands for.
The reference to allowing my clan to cheat dealt with one specific server where my clan was the only one that did not cheat. As such any members I had were playing at a disadvantage whereas the host enjoyed himself the frequent 300 fps and members of other clans made no secret of doing the same. So basically I am being accused for not allowing my members to be harassed. Well sorry about that.
It was also before I actually urged people to *loving* test the problems not build a shrine to it. At that point Poor was the first to actually develop some kind of system to detect the speedup as numbers, later followed by improved information from DejaVu. Meanwhile, some veteran players were recommending playing with 230 or 300 fps because it was the "sweet spot" for smooth game. How on earth a veteran cannot see that the game is *loving* broken is beyond me.


edit:
Spoiler: short summary of the emergence of speedhack vulnerabilities in the game
2008 phantom was actively testing fps speedups in fire, later moving on to cpu speedups using clocking software. He posted initial reports in my private forums, and my friends saw it as reasonable testing carried out in the game. Soon after, he used those vulnerabilities against us.
2011 the issue was still there and over years the number of people using speedhack suddenly skyrocketed. There is also no reason to believe that many top players did not over-cap their FPS pre 2008. It is quite certain that at the very least PappaRoach and Controled did that in 2005. They claimed to get 1000 fps in dxmp, but as we know 150 is enough regardless of that 1k fps being likely bs.
2011-2012 members of active atdm clans recommended playing uncapped and taught how to disable vsync to do exactly that. Owner of the popular euro atdm server generally played at the 150 fps cap treshold but changed to 300 fps whenever he thought that the other guy might be doing the same. This was also his solution to any cheating issues ie unbanned Phantom: owner decided to solve the issue by cheating as well, instead of - like - using common sense means to sort it out.
Around that time I believe it was due to Ste pushing the agenda that DejaVu released his first attempt at fixing phantoms speedhack. While it seemed to do something, fights against both frenchmen soon showed it didnt work.

At some point I returned my focus from Anarchy Online guild and became active in DXMP again, finally confronting my clan leader at the time about all this crap. I didn't like players turning gamebreaking bugs into tactical advantage and warmly recommending it to eachother, in privates of course. I didn't like visibly cheating speedhacking bunnies in the most popular servers. And I didn't like people who didn't have an ounce of common sense to see that there is KIND OF something wrong with all of it!

Initially it was necessary to figure out wth was even happening and at what point the game breaks. I talked to Alex, Poor, Dejavu, as well as actually trying to do some more primitive testing with Blade. What was certain was that we needed reliable detection not counting bullet holes in wall texture. Poor was the first to lend a hand and code a weapon that tried to time projectiles or somesuch. I believe Alex tried something similar at some point as well. FPS speed breaking threshold of 200 was verified and later at 500 fps over 3X faster shooting speed was reported.
I kept nagging Alex and Deja and Poor to actually code a fix for it, and Deja was first to find time for it, while Alex likely simply was too busy with work and family.
At that point fps breaking minimum was detected at 150 because then the changes in gamespeed were first detected and automatically normalized.
Unfortunately, none of the tactical masterminds hosting their servers wanted to actually use the patch, until my new clan got us a server. I got deja to code few more series of patches until he felt too disappointed by the broken game code and the ignoring fellow coders, and decided to retire. At that point last coder left in DXMP who was still working on our issues was and is Alex.

All the while I've been harassed left and right for trying to fix our game or complaining about cheaters and buggers, as if all that is perfectly normal thing to do. So thank you for that, guys.

Because technically these issues have existed since 2001, I doubt fps and cpu speedhack vulnerabilities were not known or used from early on. What prompted the well overdue investigation was the fact that an average gamer could at that point push out reliable 200+ fps with little issues.


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Re: Ken Alvarovic, the great lie. (The Estonian has been bus - Postby Cozmo » 17 Dec 2014, 17:04


I actually had a mutator working that could detect speedhax / FPS abuse back in 2012 (where abusers would glow brightly :-D), but there was no reasonable way to punish abusers because so much of it was unintentional (even a 105% speed threshold would seem to get randomly get exceeded with perfect settings). Having client speed on scoreboard is pretty amazing news! Should put a lot of paranoia to rest and noobs to shame. I'm glad I didn't skip this topic now lol

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