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What i dream for dx is ...


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Psycho
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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby Psycho » 05 Jul 2017, 22:21


ShadowRunner wrote:Some auggers often refused to play custom maps and of course some 0-auggers retalliated to attacks or trolls as well. What's interesting now, is that because of cheating, pc issues and other reasons, auggers are now adapting to a different type of ATDM game and it's no longer possible to enforce a truly default game, earth is not flat.
.
etc etc

95% of custom made maps don't work for ATDM. The placement of biocells, multitools, lockpicks and repair bots are critically important. Some either have far too many, or have been inadequately set out (20mm freely available and not in cabinets, giving the player and team who get to it first a huge advantage as streaked players are very difficult to kill.). I love Tunnelnetwork, Smuggles, DamnationValley (not played it anywhere near enough), Majestic and DryDock, and if you add them maps to the original maps of Cathedral City, Smuggler, Area51, CMD and Silo; DamnationValley excluded, that's 4 custom maps and 5 original maps, that do get played regularly in ATDM. Even now writing this, I looked at the server list and
DXMP_Refinery is the map on the only EU aug server.

Even in 0 augs, for many many years, there were only about 10 maps in circulation, pretty much most of the custom ones were DXMS, until the 10s where Chinny made some brilliant 0 aug maps (a player who was very good at 0a and could make a map from a players point of view not a mappers). Sike was an augger and that's how Majestic worked, and Ste an auger and that's how DryDock worked (a lot of us from A!B had many games in DryDock before the final one was released to try and optimise the playability of the map). Perhaps if some of the mappers asked augers at the time for their opinion and advice on some of their maps, then perhaps there would be even more playable aug maps. There have been many maps that could have worked so well for augs (Landerneau one of my favourite maps, which was the best for DXAG, a game type that I loved, where B2S and A would have weekly matches which were great fun), but that map doesn't work for ATDM.

You seem to have a lot of disdain for augers which seem to skew your view. It looks like to me that you blame augers for the downfall of DXMP. The augers didn't have a whip round and pay deja to hack the master server. If you want to categorize one persons actions with the players of a whole game type then I could easily skew it to make 0 augers look bad.

I have been a 0 auger for most of the time that I played DXMP, so I am not looking at anything from an alleged augger high ground. I have played DX since when I was just a little kid, and augs were too daunting for many years. Most of the years that I played DXMP 0 aug was the dominant gametype over augs. Augs did have a resurgence in the tens, but it wasn't like us who played augs didn't play 0a.

As a player who played with less than 50fps (you're talking about +15 years), you are at a very unfair disadvantage when facing players with broken fps so that they get speedhack. I've attacked players with an assault rifle when they haven't seen me, and they've managed to empty a clip before me. It's never really bothered me too much, and any complaint Is justified, but you can't put the complaints of some players speed hacking down to an unwillingness to adapt by augers.

I have probably played in GODZ server more than any server ever, I have an unnatural love for GODZ_Castle and Omaha Beach, and I played for many years in Bowen server. CozmoRPG became very popular and I played many hours there with Monkee, dispelling the myth that augers refuse to play anything but ATDM. I used to wake up an hour and half early before primary school and watch cartoons and play Hejhukha bots, and again that was a gametype that was very popular. Hengsha was also a very good gametype that I played a lot in, and I'm sure I'm missing others.

Deus Ex has survived for so long because many good coders (Nobody, Alex, Dae, and others that I'm probably forgetting) have kept it going, and if you would have to make a DXMP hall of fame, then they would feature in the top 5 for their contributions. It has had many other good coders who love creating mods for the game, but in my opinion there has been an over dilution of mods in Deus Ex, and that's why some have not had the success they may have warranted.


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synthetic
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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby synthetic » 05 Jul 2017, 23:57


"Some augers often refused.."

Tom explained in detailed way why we don't play custom maps much, so I can explain it in a different way: vast majority of custom maps in DXMP are not meant for the player, are not meant for the game. The vast majority of custom maps in DXMP are meant for the author of the map.

Its kind of like me painting portraits of you and being disappointed you don't like the result even though I put lot of effort into it. But it doesn't pop to mind that maybe it is just because I can't paint.


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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby anax » 09 Jul 2017, 20:43


synthetic wrote:"Some augers often refused.."

Tom explained in detailed way why we don't play custom maps much, so I can explain it in a different way: vast majority of custom maps in DXMP are not meant for the player, are not meant for the game. The vast majority of custom maps in DXMP are meant for the author of the map.

Its kind of like me painting portraits of you and being disappointed you don't like the result even though I put lot of effort into it. But it doesn't pop to mind that maybe it is just because I can't paint.


THIS! Even when I got skilled unusually fast at making detailed maps that weren't fullbright zone-lit monstrosities like you find on 'Zxc' servers, I had no idea HOW to make a playable map where items were in locations that made sense, Ste and Monkee helped me a whole lot in that regard. I still get *loving* pissed off when players denounce custom maps, but it's not because I want them to like it as if they're under obligation. I remember one player called 'DXMP_Ikea' a 'metabolic end product map' before he even left the spawn or the first room outside spawn, the best criticism he could manage was that it's boring and gray despite Smuggler being the grayest map i've ever come across. But cutting to the point, most maps will be FUN when item placement and the 'flow' of the rooms make sense and you have 4+ fast moving players with varying styles of play running about in it.


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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby synthetic » 10 Jul 2017, 21:24


I've tried to make maps for DXMP since 2004 when I worked on my first map. I never released anything because I realised I suck at it, ten years later when I tried to make another map, I realized it takes me way too much time to make a playable map and I gave up on it, focusing on clan events instead what I know I am good at. Making a map is not hard, making a pretty map is not hard but takes lot of time, making a good online map takes both extremely good knowledge of the gametype its intended for as well as skill for strategical/spatial thinking. I think Drydock is an interesting example of a simple map that took two people to make. Remembering the maps he designed alone in 2006-2007 period, I think Drydock is the only good one. That prison map was.. yeah.


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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby A!BSolid » 11 Jul 2017, 00:15


Deus ex isn't complicated enough to have such consideration taken into the maps. The best players will always strive irregardless of the map.


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Re: What i dream for dx is ... - Postby Psycho » 11 Jul 2017, 21:29


synthetic wrote:I've tried to make maps for DXMP since 2004 when I worked on my first map. I never released anything because I realised I suck at it, ten years later when I tried to make another map, I realized it takes me way too much time to make a playable map and I gave up on it, focusing on clan events instead what I know I am good at. Making a map is not hard, making a pretty map is not hard but takes lot of time, making a good online map takes both extremely good knowledge of the gametype its intended for as well as skill for strategical/spatial thinking. I think Drydock is an interesting example of a simple map that took two people to make. Remembering the maps he designed alone in 2006-2007 period, I think Drydock is the only good one. That prison map was.. yeah.

That Prison map is quite possibly the most taxing on fps ever.

And of course Deus Ex is complicated enough. Can base that on skillpoints and augs alone.


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