This isnt new, i had this "problem back in 2009/2010 or even earlier.
I capped my FPS via .ini at, uh i dont know 150 or sth like that to have instant scope from my rifle but stay at normal speed.

back then my pc could handle 250~ FPS easy and nowadays, i dont even know i have a way faster cpu now, so i guess even more.
How can someone in 2013 struggle getting 100fps in a game released in 2000 which doesnt cap its FPS on its own? Time to let that pentium 3 go, buddy.

Ken wants everybody to buy a Pentium 3, and then he'll make a suprise visit to each players home with his clipboard and pen to jot down a few notes and make sure people are abiding.

Fear wrote:Ken wants everybody to buy a Pentium 3, and then he'll make a suprise visit to each players home with his clipboard and pen to jot down a few notes and make sure people are abiding.

Second person defending cheating with his reasoning

Tidus wrote:This isnt new, i had this "problem back in 2009/2010 or even earlier.
I capped my FPS via .ini at, uh i dont know 150 or sth like that to have instant scope from my rifle but stay at normal speed.

back then my pc could handle 250~ FPS easy and nowadays, i dont even know i have a way faster cpu now, so i guess even more.
How can someone in 2013 struggle getting 100fps in a game released in 2000 which doesnt cap its FPS on its own? Time to let that pentium 3 go, buddy.

Tidus, you haven't read through the opening post.

Deus Ex has so old engine that it breaks if you have too high FPS or variable speed cpu. That completely breaks competitive game right now and lot of players intentionally or inadvertently cheat daily. This is about cheating, and has nothing to do with having a good PC in itself.

1. Lot of things break above 60 FPS (scope, like you mentioned, disappears at 80-100 fps) but after 200 FPS weapons start shooting faster.

2. Even if you have 20 FPS, you can shoot weapons faster if you have modern CPU with its features enabled.


Nothing to do with being able or not being able to reach some FPS. That said, proper gamer doesnt need higher than ~120 FPS in any shooter.

Or, from another angle, the game is no longer about *skill* or *aim* but about who can cheat better. In 0augs I can beat all current cheaters but I do struggle against Phantom on some maps (smaller maps where he uses behindview or wallhack that comes with certain cheat-cards). Only person who consistently beat me using cheats was certain polish player when he used to use ~300-400 FPS. He was lot better than phantom. Regardless of score, it makes me feel really bad to fight against fire spaz. It is unnatural and annoying.


Quickest fix right now would be to code Exe check for server and inform players that they have to use one of the fixed launchers. This will make server incompatible with classic installations, but the game does need patching. It has to be said that Kentie's exe at least can actually evade netspeed fps cap, so additional measures are necessary, such as using upcoming ANNA with FPS on scoreboard. Capping netspeed is not really ideal approach anyway, but dire times need crude measures.

While fixed exe will still speed up the client, weapon fire *seems* to be fixed. In any case, the difference is tremendous.

Tidus I think you are forgetting that alot of us have laptops, we don't want to be tied down to our desks anymore, we want to be mobile, I play the game in my front room laying down on my couch for the last few years. My laptop may be crappy but I've never been as comfortable!

chin.democ. wrote:Tidus I think you are forgetting that alot of us have laptops, we don't want to be tied down to our desks anymore, we want to be mobile, I play the game in my front room laying down on my couch for the last few years. My laptop may be crappy but I've never been as comfortable!

, I sit on my bed leaning on a clothes draw playing dx, Laptops ftw

So, do you remember our chat on Hivemind forum where i told you i was using Kentie's launcher before you'd even heard of it, and that i have AMD core optimizer installed every single time i format? probably do, but deliberately miss it out eh because you've got *loving* nothing to go by you complete waste of breath.

Trying to brand me some cheater just because i left your clan without telling your disrespectful-sorry-hideous-attitude-for-a-leader ass, it deffo hit a sore spot, is it my fault i can compete with you with arrows, a medbind and 120fps (ive actually cut my fps down by 20 aswell cos it feels smoother to me), the correct answer would be no, or is it fustration that all your *loving* binds/macros whatever the hell you want to call them dont get you anywhere.

Maybe you miss my slagging off phantom at every given opportunity for both ruining 0 augs and making people into Ken's

How does it feel to know you urine more people off in the game than i do, by a rather large amount.

Go to bed.

"Quickest fix right now would be to code Exe check for server and inform players that they have to use one of the fixed launchers." - LOL, your seriously insane... how you manage to convince people like Alex and whoever else to help you with things is beyond me, although you are pretty damn good with words i gotta hand you that, alot of people follow you like a dumb fly around metabolic end product.

chin.democ. wrote:Tidus I think you are forgetting that alot of us have laptops, we don't want to be tied down to our desks anymore, we want to be mobile, I play the game in my front room laying down on my couch for the last few years. My laptop may be crappy but I've never been as comfortable!

Chinny you could probably hang upside down from a tree branch and still be comfortable playing DX

chin.democ. wrote:Tidus I think you are forgetting that alot of us have laptops, we don't want to be tied down to our desks anymore, we want to be mobile, I play the game in my front room laying down on my couch for the last few years. My laptop may be crappy but I've never been as comfortable!

True, i give you that but when i play a game and want to be good at it, i need a desk a mouse, keyboard and a chair to sit on, so there is actually no difference between a computer and a laptop, for me. I dont care how other people play, they can play on the toilet from what i care. Aslong they can play and feel good at it, sure why not.
A laptop can run deus ex quiet as good as a normal computer could, when you have a core i3/i5/i7 or AMD quad core, they perform all very good and will break the 200FPS quiet fast, so i think there is no difference between these two.
Older laptops, maybe but i would say every average laptop can do that.

@Synt
So you want to tell me, that even the Scope i menationed is already considered cheating? Or having an unfair advantage against ppl who cant have that? I wouldnt think so to be honest.
Its like saying "Having 6ßFPS in Battlefield 3 is unfair, because i only can reach 25 and im not seeing everything smooth like you".
Well maybe not like this in general, because it wont break anything as you call it, but its still a huge difference (atleast for me,having more fps is allways better and 25 would be a point, where i would call it not smooth at all).

But i do agree with you, that having the FPS reach a point where you really have an advantage in shooting a gun faster is kind of unfair. As mentioned, i capped the FPS at some point to prevent the faster shooting (or faster gameplay) but keep the instant scope.

Thats all

to be honest, fixing the problem should be easy for anyone with a free day and half a brain.
Downloading kenties launcher and capping .ini fps rate has fixed my fps to 60 and playing dxmp feels far smoother.

IMO until everyone, including Phantom will fix their DX's and server owners update stuff to the latest patches or whatever, then the dxmp of today will continue to be a broken game and that includes the breaks between players.
Everybody should be playing dx with equal in-game performance, so that the winning factor becomes skill rather than how massive your fps is, dx needs to be slowed down on newer machines. I'm not neccesarily follwing Ken either, it just makes sense to fix the slightest issues with game performance and fps speeds.

Tidus wrote:@Synt
So you want to tell me, that even the Scope i menationed is already considered cheating? Or having an unfair advantage against ppl who cant have that? I wouldnt think so to be honest.
Its like saying "Having 6ßFPS in Battlefield 3 is unfair, because i only can reach 25 and im not seeing everything smooth like you".
Well maybe not like this in general, because it wont break anything as you call it, but its still a huge difference (atleast for me,having more fps is allways better and 25 would be a point, where i would call it not smooth at all).

But i do agree with you, that having the FPS reach a point where you really have an advantage in shooting a gun faster is kind of unfair. As mentioned, i capped the FPS at some point to prevent the faster shooting (or faster gameplay) but keep the instant scope.

Cheating has nothing to do with good pc performance, but I can kind of understand the confusion some people have regarding the speedhacking issues in DX.

A fact and not an opinion: Sniper has Zoom animation. "High" FPS removes that animation from the game. If this is a good thing, why does it have animation to begin with? Answer: It is meant to have an animation and is sped up because you do not have a computer from year 2000. Problem with Zoom animation is that it breaks at FPS range that is generally desirable for shooter gamers (100-120FPS is ideal, but zoom animation is gone at that point).
Technically it is a cheat but I'd say 90% of DXMP players skip zoom this way, and it is not sure anyone will ever fix it. Because zoom damage is applied before you are fully zoomed in, you can actually get scope-snipes half way through the animation, so it is not a tremendous advantage.

Another fact: game features and mechanics are supposed to be *same* for *all* players. Game *performance* and *experience* can be variable. If game mechanics change due to hardware incompatibility (or if you just cheat) then you are playing a different game, and not the one released by developers.
If you shoot weapons faster in Deus Ex than developers coded them to shoot,then you are a cheater.

This has nothing to do with having low FPS or high FPS per se. Above 120 FPS shouldn't be used for shooter gaming anyway, and variable FPS is a handicap, meaning that if you cap FPS to 120 it should not go lower than that either, in fight or otherwise. If poor computers get 40 FPS then it is player's problem, but normally none of that breaks the game itself.

Justifying this just makes it a cheating game not a game where skill counts. You could argue there is skill in cheating, but good luck with that.

Trivia: deus ex is steadily sped up for the player as FPS goes up, from ~60 FPS I suppose. This is not normal in a game, but happens in Deus Ex for some reason, maybe because of powerful gfx cards. This faster paced game makes some players prefer higher FPS even if they are not cheating in the *server* (that we can tell or have been able to prove). While it doesn't seem to affect shooting speed or ground running speed noticeably, it does make the game feel faster, and seems to make you die faster as well. How exactly that works, nobody seems to know. On the other hand, I myself and some other players prefer lower FPS in order to survive longer than higher fps player.. this kind of tactics doesnt apply to fps values above 200 where firing speed notably speeds up but is sometimes efficient vs 150-200 FPS players. What benefit they gain from 100-200 range is not certain. Poor's mod showed no changes in shooting animation times or shottime until above 200 FPS. So in a sense, it seems easier for me to kill 150 fps player if I use 80 FPS.. go figure

Well, okay i got that.

Mhm what i noticed is, that some players glitch out on my screen (like sliding around the floor while immune to damage) and shoot like a whole magazin in one single push.
Well it wasnt lag at all, because i just could shoot fine and use items and such but he was kind of out of sync, maybe thats what i experienced back then.
When i have lag, i noticed pretty quick because my weapons delay shooting, items getting out and stuff like that, but there, no just him.

Weird but yea, the game shoulöd be sync for everyone and everyone should have, what the opponent have too (not saying, that everyone should cheat now lol).

I dont consider this one a cheat at all, i would call it a glitch or a unintendet code error. But a cheat would be something different.

While you say, you feel better playing at 80FPS and kill 120FPS player faster, i would say im the opposit, maybe you dont feel the increase of the 40FPS but it sure does it for me.
Cant say what it is exactly but i feel better playing in high FPS numbers and can perform better with them.
In some maps from shadowrunner, my FPS go down to 30-40 (engine error aswell) and its almost unplayable for me at that point, i need high fps numbers.

Maybe im used to low numbers nowadays because new games have lower FPS then games which came out 13 years ago lol.
Like the game i play now, Metro last Light runs at 40-50FPS average and i can perform well there. its a fast shooter too and maybe i can imagine playing DX like this too but i wouldnt sign that paper

Only solution to all the issues is to patch the game, and in a more intrusive way than MTL team did. Technically you do not have to install their patch, it is downloaded automatically if you enter MTL server; user-friendly but won't fix our multiple hardware issues. I am not aware of anyone who is skilled in coding executables however, and kentie's launcher is causing some issues for DXMP players, mostly due to access rights issues as it tries to write cache files or otherwise copy ini files.

Could use a patch that bundles maximum server protection from MTL/CRD/ANNA legacy, 2x new renderers (D3D10, OpenGL v2.1), client textures validating (for checking clientside high ql textures for colour bot modifications), Core Affinity fix, FPS cap of ~125, improved game delta time code for gamespeed inconsistencies.

Theoretically, if Kentie's launcher is used, the server would still need fps cap code as the launcher does not have upper limit for FPS and actually bypasses classic netspeed related cap. Using FPS on scoreboard and hoping for active admin presence is a poor work around for time being.

Biggest issue right now is that no server-side check exists for fixed launcher, and there seem to be some problems with the very old qvalidate. To reduce chances of colourbotting, certain textures that new renderers allow override for should also be checked. Player skins at least.

In the last 3 days, I lost my will to play DXMP. Please read my post as to why.

FIRSTLY - Absolutely fantastic to see Tidus around
SECONDLY - If Ken wants to go around to people's houses and manually check, that is fine by me.
THIRDLY - Y'all need to hear about Aces High and play it for 30 mins, it's a free trial, online and the same age as DXMP. After even 5 minutes in a server, you can see immediately that without major changes, DXMP is definitely dead and with no hope of revival.

The major reasons that DX will die very soon. The results of my research
These are just some of the things I noticed playing Aces High.

1. Game is not balanced, people won't let people balance the game. Cloak and other things need to change.
2. A LOT of stuff has been removed, particularly the lack of lams has transformed the game into something else entirely and prevented beginners from having any kills. It's possible in Aces High to score kills without being able to fly combat, drive or shoot at planes.
3. The game is FULL of nasty kids, people who should know better, trolls, people who thrive on pain and suffering. I've been playing AH for three days and not seen ONE spammer, troll, any nastyness at all. The major reason for this being that the game itself demands a lot of co-operation to win, attacks need to be timed, planned, supported.
4. You can alias and evade bans. You can alias and seriously disturb people. You can alias and play politics. You can enter a server and spam for another server.
5. There are way too many servers competing with each other. No clear direction, it's a contest. Inner conflict.
6. The fps abuse and other issues mentioned in this thread. Almost no point in playing any kind of actual match/war.
7. The leaders of DXMP are too obsessed with their own agendas/politics and tailoring the game how THEY want.
8. A stupid sentiment and nostalgia. Refusing to evolve the game and let the classic DXMP take a back seat.
9. Some issues with Unreal and DXMP being very much a rush job.
10. A ban in AH seems to be permanent, regardless of dynamic IP or not.

Comment
Aces High is the same age as DX, but it has 200-400 players in ONE SERVER for nearly all day. The reasons are very obvious when you play AH, they aren't making any of the above mistakes. And wait for it, They ALL pay $14.95 a month to play this OLD GAME.

The only way to really restart DXMP is to ban about 10-20 people and start all over again, with better players, OR fix the game properly, including security issues like aliasing. You guys could fix the code, but STILL the game would die because of the trollage and aliasing. I'm sorry to say, but there are safer and more pleasant game communities out there and I actually think, you're wasting your time unless you are prepared to wipe the slate clean and start all over again.

You're facing a fight with your own people, players who actively seek to destroy DXMP and players' computers. Also you're facing yourselves, the people who hate the idea of being lammed by a beginner and refuse to play a different game, different tactic. Whether you fix DXMP code or not, beginners won't want to stick around, therefore numbers will just get smaller and smaller.

I want to see aliasing removed, lams back in and some people permanently banned off all servers, THEN you might have SOME chance of attracting and keeping beginners. You need changes far more fundamental than fixing a fps issue.

It's what happens in evolution. The Dinosaurs got wiped out and a better species evolved. You need to wipe the DXMP dinosaurs, trolls, nasty kids, politicians completely off the map and start again with a new community, IF you are going to fix the game that is. Otherwise, just let it die peacefully. After playing AH, I am actually bitter at how many years of crap I have sat and watched in DXMP and not done anything about it myself to remove these people permanently.

ShadowRunner wrote:SECONDLY - If Ken wants to go around to people's houses and manually check, that is fine by me.

First of all, do not use my name with such a statement: I not once made any kind of mention that I have any interest in babysitting a cheating community. These threads and my own research are born largely out of lack of available information *and* from due respect to the game I've spent 9 years of my life playing.

Secondly, the game is unbalanced because it was never meant to be a game. It is an online mode for Deus Ex, it is thanks to people like TRM/Smuggler/Alex/Nobody that we can even play it as a multiplayer game, but even that deals predominantly with anti-cheat and performance related fixes -- both essential for competitive game types.

Thirdly, within the existing gameplay both the classic DXMP and the generic shooter 0aug mode both have found their minimalistic balance. 13 years have enforced that balance. It does not make it an interesting game, but it makes it a playable game. Amusingly enough, classic auged gameplay suffers more from bad maps rather than bad code, and I mean the maps supplied with the patch.
Yes, this means that in 0augs we play with ~3 weapons, and in augs some 4-5 augs are useless, but it works.

As for you having found a better game, congratulations.. I have my attention on variety of good games -- old and new -- as well, but I don't write about them in Deus Ex related threads. It is as bad as DOGNY/Brad hosting that "PLAY URBAN TERROR, ITS FREE" server.


edit: reference to the author of the quoted notion omitted, replaced with a healthy dose of christianity in order to treat all gods creatures nice

ShadowRunner wrote:FIRSTLY - Absolutely fantastic to see Tidus around

I agree with you Shadow in some points. I wouldnt pay 15bucks for an online game every month (atleast not for a shooter) which is so old.
Many players or not, there are many more games out there which are better (in some ways).

When you look at DXMP like a normal person, its just an average shooter without many players around. Sure there are a few players left, but those are the kind of ppl who will still be around in a few years even when there are just those ppl left, who wouldnt join a good old DX match at the evening.
Even i stopped playing, because it was the same old stuff everytime and with almost the same players with alias names.

Dont get me wrong, Deus Ex is a very good game, even the MP is tempting, but its glory is over, atleast the MP part of it. Noone doubt that the SP part is a masterpiece.

You posted many points i was annoyed back then, spammers or "snops" for example, who are good at playing, but just have such an giant ego that it makes me want to puke.

New players have no chance at all to kill a player who is playing this game a while, because all the noob weapons are gone. why do you think every game has some kind of noob weapons? yea thats why. All those noob stuff is gone (GEP, LAM, Plasma, Turrets etc).

I dont played a modern shooter yet (Battlefield 3, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor etc) and im not interessted in them but when i want to play a shooter, i pick up games like Counter Strike or Half Life.

PS: Nice that you call Deus Ex a Dinosaur, it wont hit a meteor anytime soon

PSS: Hope the new Deus Ex gets a new MP part, hope to see all DXMP players there