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The FPS drama of 2017


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Ermac
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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby Ermac » 24 Jul 2017, 15:37


synthetic wrote:Small penis? I'm curious.


lol

It is certainly too small for your big and bad mouth indeed :D


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby Mastakilla » 27 Jul 2017, 02:51


Just to be clear am I cheating if my fps is 180-200?

:matrix:


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby anax » 27 Jul 2017, 09:27


Mastakilla wrote:Just to be clear am I cheating if my fps is 180-200?

:matrix:


The short answer is yes.

between (and over) ~150 - ~200 fps the game begins to metabolic end product itself, from 170 /180 upwards, the increase in fire rate and/or speed-up/warping of animations will be more noticeable to others. It's possible that it might not be directly noticeable, if your computer is a metabolic end product potato. But yes, 150+ fps starts to break the game.

And in cases where a player has high fps but changes aren't immediately obvious, then the DT value being above ~115% will tell you a player is 'speedhacking' And that's been proven again recently from Kai's new gametype testing using the DT detection from released ANNA stuff, Dani and Revenant playtested for us.

a player with close to 200% DT would be going twice as fast as normal, I think it's safe to say that's objective, and doesn't depend on opinion, as opposed to phnatom and mango thinking that 120 fps means your actual game speed as determined by your CPU is twice as fast.


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby synthetic » 27 Jul 2017, 12:02


Anax 99%-101% is pretty normal, 110% is definitely bugged game already, unless someone is lagging bad, you dont spike that high. its +/- 2% or so at most. Mango may have a point about 60 fps eliminating spiking, but given how confused he is about other things, he may mean vsync and not plain cap. 120 fps definitely does not speed the game up to twice the rate, what it does is maybe 2x the scope animation and small changes to other animations player has. If it sped actual game time up, it would have been detected by Dejavu and Poor. Instead, Poor detected speedup with crude timing methods at 200, and deja showed with his more detailed tests that speedup starts from 150. If some other coder wants to prove that the speedup actually isnt bound to any cap but exists throughout the fps range, as could be theorized, then he is welcome to show it.. or alternatively some bored coder could find out what the hell makes that 150 fps point so special in the code.

Do note that the same problem exists in all other games that use this version of engine.

edit: i am not sure what dejavu detected at 150 fps, crude timing means definitely show speedup only from 200 as poor stated. Alex' TD code also does not show any increase until 200. Its possible that some other timings are off before 200 and were noticeable from 150, but could indeed start even earlier..

I tested 300 fps and 200 fps and 120 fps just now using stopwatch and TD display. I have no idea what sped up from 150. Ill try to contact deja to see if he remembers how his test worked..


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby Ermac » 27 Jul 2017, 19:31


You can post waht you want, i trust only in our Lord.

"Don't focus too much on a value or another.
I play with 60 because the most of players play with 60.
There isn't a "good" value for the fps.
Use the same fps as the best players : me (:D) or Ricci !
If we are both in, i use the same fps as him since he will never play with 60 (he tried in my server and he's ineffective with his rifles at such speed).
(fps=180 : Duke, Labtech, ... ; fps=150 : Sike, Blade, ... ; fps=140 : Ricci, Hey, ... ; fps=130 : Fullmoon ; fps=60 : Me, Psycho, Player_131 and Darko :D)
If the server isn't overcrowded, the formula is close to slomo x fps = constant.
For example, if u have 60fps with slomo 1.0, u have around 120 fps at slomo 0.5.
So, if u play with 120 against a 60, u are around 2 times faster than him but it isn't clearly visible of course : my average delay between the call of 2 functions is around 30-40 ms (1s if i am drunk or 20 ms under cocaine :D) so switching the weapons at 30 ms instead of 60 can save your ass several time : check my post about the famous "last-bullet".)
Don't listen their bullshits, they are basically too dumb to get this simple facts.
If u drive a car at 90 km/h against someone with 91 km/h for 2-3 seconds, u can't see the difference but there is a difference in the feelings and mainly in the score, after 20 min of gaming ;)
Without anna103, dx is like a german freeway with no radars : all speed are granted so play with the fps you want and *love* them.
These noobs can't rule a game unless there is a specific mention and only if the admin do his job checking if everybody has around the same fps.
(...)
No it isn't me. I didn't play dx for ages. You know that the Ken's band is paranoid. They see phantoms everywhere :D
"
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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby anax » 27 Jul 2017, 21:42


synthetic wrote:he may mean vsync and not plain cap. 120 fps definitely does not speed the game up to twice the rate, what it does is maybe 2x the scope animation and small changes to other animations player has. If it sped actual game time up, it would have been detected by Dejavu and Poor.


That's basically how it does feel to be and how it appears to be for some based on what I heard and read from everyone about the relation of fps to game technicalities and player experience, over time.
This is why if everyone used Kenties (along with cwdohnal OpenGL, TBH) with between 60 -> 140/120 fps set in dialog window (single core fix too) everybody would experience a balanced game. Somehow I doubt it would stop any drama 8-[

Everyone SHOULD use Kenties, this shouldn't be a matter of preference anymore because the vanilla program simply does not work as intended on modern machines, emphasis on 'should' because realistically it is always user choice, if you can't or won't use kenties launcher for dx, then at least cap your fps at between ~60 and ~120 from your *loving* own hardware settings, if your computer isn't a potato.

Ermac wrote:If the server isn't overcrowded, the formula is close to slomo x fps = constant.
For example, if u have 60fps with slomo 1.0, u have around 120 fps at slomo 0.5.
So, if u play with 120 against a 60, u are around 2 times faster than him but it isn't clearly visible of course : my average delay between the call of 2 functions is around 30-40 ms (1s if i am drunk or 20 ms under cocaine :D) so switching the weapons at 30 ms instead of 60 can save your ass several time ...

You have no idea what you're talking about at all, a constant times a variable will never = a constant, this isn't even programming logic, this is basic common sense of mathematics and everything else everywhere.

'Slomo' Game speed is a constant value, before you even factor in your fps rate, the speed of your cpu is already a somewhat variable value that determines just how fast that slomo will actually be when running the game and having rendered level data on your screen, that's what the whole DT percentage is about. You're literally uneducated about deus ex and unreal engine.

Ermac wrote:if u have 60fps with slomo 1.0, u have around 120 fps at slomo 0.5

You're just proving what everyone already suspected, your lord is using some other cheating tool or method to slow down game time because his old brain can't keep up with simple vsync speed.


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby synthetic » 27 Jul 2017, 23:22


Ermac wrote:You can post waht you want, i trust only in our Lord.

"Don't focus too much on a value or another.
I play with 60 because the most of players play with 60.
There isn't a "good" value for the fps.
Use the same fps as the best players : me (:D) or Ricci !
If we are both in, i use the same fps as him since he will never play with 60 (he tried in my server and he's ineffective with his rifles at such speed).
(fps=180 : Duke, Labtech, ... ; fps=150 : Sike, Blade, ... ; fps=140 : Ricci, Hey, ... ; fps=130 : Fullmoon ; fps=60 : Me, Psycho, Player_131 and Darko :D)
If the server isn't overcrowded, the formula is close to slomo x fps = constant.
For example, if u have 60fps with slomo 1.0, u have around 120 fps at slomo 0.5.
So, if u play with 120 against a 60, u are around 2 times faster than him but it isn't clearly visible of course : my average delay between the call of 2 functions is around 30-40 ms (1s if i am drunk or 20 ms under cocaine :D) so switching the weapons at 30 ms instead of 60 can save your ass several time : check my post about the famous "last-bullet".)
Don't listen their bullshits, they are basically too dumb to get this simple facts.
If u drive a car at 90 km/h against someone with 91 km/h for 2-3 seconds, u can't see the difference but there is a difference in the feelings and mainly in the score, after 20 min of gaming ;)
Without anna103, dx is like a german freeway with no radars : all speed are granted so play with the fps you want and *love* them.
These noobs can't rule a game unless there is a specific mention and only if the admin do his job checking if everybody has around the same fps.
(...)
No it isn't me. I didn't play dx for ages. You know that the Ken's band is paranoid. They see phantoms everywhere :D
"
Phantom


Just saving this before he edits it. Legend.


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby Tidus » 29 Jul 2017, 02:50


Wasnt this a drama subject many many years ago too?

i can remember that there where servers that banned you if you have more then 120 fps or so, my client is running at 100FPS since GODZ servers where still a thing and thats a long time ago.


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby synthetic » 29 Jul 2017, 04:43


Weird thing about godz server was that nochanc capped player FPS in his server. I have absolutely no respect for this man for anything he did or didn't do, but to force cap fps for players 10 years before it came clear that fps is a major issue.. he was onto something there.


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby DaniSaggenza » 29 Jul 2017, 04:43


Ermac wrote:You can post waht you want, i trust only in our Lord


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby anax » 29 Jul 2017, 05:45


DaniSaggenza wrote:
Ermac wrote:You can post waht you want, i trust only in our Lord


Image

PFTTTTTBT AHGAHAHAHA


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby synthetic » 29 Jul 2017, 07:05


Hasharin would approve :) I'm not sure they share the same Lord, though


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby ShadowRunner » 01 Aug 2017, 23:54


150 fps never made a difference to players on custom maps in team games like SG and AG I would say. Only on default maps and ATDM games did I really notice my lack of proper binds and computer. Depending on server, map and tactics used you could still have a lot of fun and win sometimes.

The balance between bind-less newbie who was excited by seeing custom maps for the first time, and the binding atdm player who preferred default fight maps, was always hard to reach.

In my memory, SG and AG provided that balance better than WW2 or Bowens/Hejhuka mod, there was more co-op play involved as well. Beginners and Intermediate servers ended up needing throttling and kicking of spawnkillers, it didn't work as intended perhaps. Same with GODZ, as a newbie I loved camping and shelling on Bumtown and Hillz.

That's why I came to Altfire and loved it, the chaos of GODZ, ATDM and GM was escaped and the wonder of Mantra's custom maps, DXMP_Proteus(beta) and Canyon Base, opened and expanded my mind and the FGS players were chilled, cool, not trying spawnkill, shoot me in the back, or snipe me without a fight etc.

I appreciate the frustrations of ATDM default map players, trying to find players and trying to get a fair fight these days, love is the strongest medicine, keep loving the game, keep playing and don't give up the dream, the value of the game in this ever-crazy world increases day by day...


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby anax » 02 Aug 2017, 08:44


ShadowRunner wrote:The balance between bind-less newbie who was excited by seeing custom maps for the first time, and the binding atdm player who preferred default fight maps, was always hard to reach.

In my memory, SG and AG provided that balance better than WW2 or Bowens/Hejhuka mod, there was more co-op play involved as well.


I couldn't have described it better myself, I recall Machete saying dxmp suffered from veteran syndrome more than any other game. Even zero-augs has a steep learning curve compared to Counterstrike and COD which it emulates, because you actually have medkits and some semblance of the dynamic inventory (different weapons and items) with differing item slots and purposes, other games have what? 3 weapons and an explosive projectile or mine, E to open and use, and spray and pray aiming + sniper.

And I actually have thought of making a DXAG server, we haven't had one for a year or more by now :alc:


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Re: The FPS drama of 2017 - Postby Fear » 03 Aug 2017, 15:04


+1 on the DXAG idea.




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