The [FGS] Clan

synthetic wrote:

ShadowRunner wrote: SECONDLY - If Ken wants to go around to people's houses and manually check, that is fine by me.

First of all, do not use my name with such a statement: I not once made any kind of mention that I have any interest in babysitting a cheating community.

I hear you, but I was talking to Dan, who referred to "going to people's houses". I think you're overthinking. I was trying to make the point... whatever it takes.

Thirdly, within the existing gameplay both the classic DXMP and the generic shooter 0aug mode both have found their minimalistic balance. 13 years have enforced that balance. It does not make it an interesting game, but it makes it a playable game.

Ken what the hell is this statement. If any of that were true, DXMP would be popular. If there was any balance or playability, then why are there virtually no new players, despite Square Enix spending $600 million on the franchise.

Amusingly enough, classic auged gameplay suffers more from bad maps rather than bad code, and I mean the maps supplied with the patch.
Yes, this means that in 0augs we play with ~3 weapons, and in augs some 4-5 augs are useless, but it works.

Again, you are so in the habit of saying this, that you can't see the wood for the trees. If it worked, then how come no-one plays it and 1500 gamers would rather play AH and even pay for the pleasure of an ancient crappy game?

As for you having found a better game, congratulations.. I have my attention on variety of good games -- old and new -- as well, but I don't write about them in Deus Ex related threads. It is as bad as DOGNY/Brad hosting that "PLAY URBAN TERROR, ITS FREE" server.

Since I never did play UrT or any other online game EVER, you're making an idiot of yourself to say this to me. It just distracts from the points we are discussing and starts getting personal. I've supported DXMP as much as I could with undivided loyalty and I am not going to stand here pretending everything is perfect, when it's not. I used AH as an example. I did not tell anyone to play it for more than 30 minutes, nor did I suggest it as an alternative to DX.

You can sit there, repeating those mantras and eventually you will just become irrelevant totally, because what you are saying is not true anymore. It's NOT playable for everyone, it's NOT popular (5 players online perhaps) and this is your wake-up call to look at other games and see why they are not having the same problems that DXMP has.

If you look at Facetown, it's utilizing many of the systems that AH has, whereas "classic" DXMP does not.

The point is that 0-aug is NOT balanced. 90% of the time, a beginner has no spawnroom, has no lams and is facing players who reload bug, medbind and god knows what else. There is virtually no chance for them to have any fun, which is why there are only a handful of people playing this game.

Maybe I don't feel good to rub AH in your face, but if that is what it takes to prove that DXMP current form is actually not stress-free, playable, popular or balanced enough for beginners, then I don't feel any shame in last-ditch attempts to show people to think "outside the DXMP box" a bit more and learn from other successful oldies.

I'm not talking so much about gametype, more like cheating, trolling, aliasing and also a lack of Vox channels, co-op play, teamwork. The most active I ever saw DXMP was when AG and SG servers were both up and they were full for months.

SG and AG were MORE popular than classic and 0-aug. You can't twist facts and server stats around. Yet people would rather insult people who suggest lams, or suggest co-op/teamwork, or suggest anything other than standard arena DXMP.

Godzserver was MORE popular than GM. But people tried to change that and then people tried to change gametype and then Russian and Slovenian cops etc, then 32 slot servers, the community themselves messed the game up, by not leaving other people alone and doing something better themselves. This is the basic problem in this community.

And btw, Godz had lams and 24/7 admin. Classic needs better maps and less cheating. 0-aug needs challenges for experienced players and reduced lams and support for beginners. Also the whole aliasing thing has to stop.

I do not remember Sqenix spending millions on DXMP. You should elaborate further.

Secondly, the game is not popular because it is 1) old (which *does* matter) and 2) not a game but multiplay patch with primitive gaming concept.

For DXMP to be popular, it should be polished into a decent game. The only DXMP experience that is relevant is auged deathmatch types and those suffer from 1) small and-or poor maps 2) maps that do not support lot of the augs properly 3) primitive features 4) unbalanced augs (I want to see top augers use Aqualung on Smuggler, or go with Enviro Resi or Radar Trans as a choice, but I suspect they for some strange reason do not like the thought, eh, eh?). 0auged gametype has to be viewed as strictly a mod-type gameplay and cannot be scrutinized when we are talking about DXMP, and that is just a fact. Its popularity is strictly tied to the popularity of the original DXMP, and we covered the few reasons why the original experience is not a top choice.

Additionally, while in principle ATDM-like concept works, it strays a bit away from the preferences of a typical DXSP. I myself along with several other veteran community members have interpreted this as a possibility of developing DXMP in two distinct directions, and original devs went with UT style route, likely for time-related considerations. This means that within existing gameplay environment two distinctly different approaches exist to gameplay.

DXMP was relevant in and around the year 2001, gaining popularity due to its unique features, but overall the poor gameplay and vulnerabilities did not successfully sustain its active playerbase more than 2 years. From this angle, one can say DXMP never lived longer than 2 years, and it is the aggressive RPG experience that the success of those 2 years can be attributed to.

Everything else post 2003 has been a dead game frequented by players that are familiar with generic 0auged shooter experience, or by the veterans from 2001-2003 period. Very few additional auged players have sticked to the community since, and most of such occurances overlap with the brief comebacks that the original players (Triad, DEA, T, I, EL etc members) stage.
This means that while we've had chances of getting some games post 2003, the game has been technically dead. For that to significantly change, ATDM like experience would have to be recreated on a new engine in a more optimized manner in order to recreate its original success, or a new engine should be used to recreate a different, more heavy on RPG and-or RTS, DXMP experience and cross fingers that it brings a new success.

On another note, very few DX players can see it as it is, and like to pretend everything is just fine or argue about whether augs belong to Deus Ex or not. This post is meant for those that can understand what it says.

SG and AG were MORE popular than classic and 0-aug. You can't twist facts and server stats around. Yet people would rather insult people who suggest lams, or suggest co-op/teamwork, or suggest anything other than standard arena DXMP.

SG has never been more popular than 0a.

Psycho wrote:

SG and AG were MORE popular than classic and 0-aug. You can't twist facts and server stats around. Yet people would rather insult people who suggest lams, or suggest co-op/teamwork, or suggest anything other than standard arena DXMP.

SG has never been more popular than 0a.

Lol, I didn't even notice that statement. With no disrespect meant for the authors of the mod, I call many metabolic end product unless it can be credibly shown through statistics. It is a relatively rhetoric request since I already know its bull

Unfortunately, as suspected, Kentie's Exe does not appear to fully fix fire rate issue. The man himself states on his website that it doesn't fix the problem for all PCs, which has been bugging me for a while, but recent games against player on i7 show that something is rotten.

Unfortunately, without Poor's mod (or any equivalent) we cannot properly determine the facts, and it is just a feeling stemming from abundant experience.

Because Hanfling's exe uses slightly different delta time code, I might ask that player to test it as well. What it does do is make the game smooth for the player who would otherwise see constant warping, but the fire rate does not seem normal even for a player who might have ~10 ping and excellent aim.

Would be awesome if DJ or Nobody, or someone could look into at least coding some testing mod that would log relevant info such as shot time etc to log, like Poor did.

Gameplay acceleration effects between 100 and 200 FPS are still a huge question mark however, even though Poor's mod pretty much showed that shottime doesnt increase before 200+ FPS.

Has to be said that 0augs is pretty awesome for noticing cheats, augs has too many variables and combined with the generally oddly behaving game (random lag, sync issues, tick rate differences, odd weapon spray, etc etc) makes it a proper nightmare to figure out if something is off or if its just dx. In 0augs all the cheaters are nicely on the plate, visible to the naked eye.

Also, additional issue with DX but I don't think it is common or significant: my video card seems to speed game up when it overheats or is heavily stressed. Almost never happens in 0a, but fairly frequently in aug fights in moderately populated server (after PC has been running a while and ran other programs). People say they don't notice me shooting faster or moving weird, so it might be client issue entirely, but would be interesting to test. This might be the first instance of suggested GPU driven game play acceleration that has been witnessed in DXMP, but so far seems to deal with failing hardware rather than compromised game.

In case the purpose of this thread and these many posts wasn't clear: I hoped to have a discussion (which turns out to be very one-sided so far) about critical issues in DXMP. Because I like playing this game and because I care about it. As things stand, no normal players can play this game. It is ideal only for beginners and cheaters, or for people who have no idea about anything that is going on around them. For normal multiplayer, this game is broken.
I've tried to look into various means of patching the game, but such level coding is above my head and will remain so for too long even if I started looking it today. My main hope was that Kentie's exe was more reliable and that we could've had server check player's exe.

Psycho wrote:

SG and AG were MORE popular than classic and 0-aug. You can't twist facts and server stats around. Yet people would rather insult people who suggest lams, or suggest co-op/teamwork, or suggest anything other than standard arena DXMP.

SG has never been more popular than 0a.

AG and SG (Especially SG) where the most popular Mods out there.
Remember the old days with Nobodys Server? Compared with Tactical weapons, it was full for months, Shadow said the truth, i loved that one and everyone else did so too.
When you catched a free spot, you where a lucky one and could enjoy a nice good battle.

On 0Aug on the other hand, i rarely saw a full server and when i saw one, it doesnt lasted for long. SG was full for months or even longer.
DXAG wasnt for everyone but i enjoyed it (not as much i loved SG) but the servernumbers told me, that AG wasnt as popular.

GODz server was a normal 0Aug server with all the noobish shyt going on and what? it was damn awesome and was full too. Shows, that even noobs can kill people with explosives. Thats what they are for, explode the shyt out of the place.


I agree with Shadow completly, you can say, that everything is perfect, but its not. Look at the players online, you wont be pleased.

Oh come on, be reasonable. 0augs has been popular for 10-11 years, at some points sporting several full servers. I don't even understand where you take this nonsense about SG being more popular from. The brief window of popularity might've overlapped with the time when lot of players that usually played 0augs went and played augs or didn't play at all. I have been through ~8-10 clans in DXMP and none of the players in my clans ever played SG..

There is a huge difference between stating that one is more popular than other, or that one was more popular than other for a month. Seems like completely irrational demagogic bollocks to me.

Ah forget it, I think sometimes you guys are intentionally trolling me here by saying things that don't make any sense. Good on you.

Tidus wrote:ß
AG and SG (Especially SG) where the most popular Mods out there.

read carefully, i never said 0augs. 0augs is no mod for me, its simple DXMP which is basic.

8-10 clans never played SG? are you serious? What kind of many metabolic end product clans where that, i mean omg really? wtf xD

I've only ever seen FGS and a few others play SG.

I don't see much point in talking anymore, it is not true that 0-aug or classic was more busy/popular than SG or AG. Even GODZserver was more popular than any other "classic" 0-aug server I have seen.

NoChanc was hated, but what he did was right, he took a very difficult and esoteric game and made it attractive to beginners.

The non-beginners are the people that really screwed this community, by attacking the community itself. (Anti-GODZ), from then attacks became bolder and more daring, until Deja Vu had attacked an entire gametype.

SG and AG servers contained 40 people for around 16-20 hours a day, nothing else has ever come close since 2005. This should tell you, that people prefer to throw lams, get easier kills, work in co-op and enjoy the features that were in AG and SG. It should make you realize that 0-aug has removed too much from the game.

As long as the community has chosen to destroy itself, by destroying GODZ, lams, easier rifling, you will reap the consequences and suffer from a lack of beginners. I'm not saying GODZ was better, but it was a success in recruiting and developing players to DXMP, not sure I would have stuck around if all there was on GM was gas and being shot in the back by a "pro".

I am not saying lams are going to fix anything, but I can see that you guys are flogging a dead donkey and not thinking outside the box for solutions. Your solutions just don't work. The longest anyone can keep a 0-aug server busy is around four months. You need to offer more choices, more co-op, more chance of kills for beginners and you need to stop assuming you knew better than people like NoChance. Tyrant may he be, but NoChanc successfully recruited a horde of new players. If you maintain 0-aug in current form, with no grenades, bright arena maps, few admins, no room for anything except shooting people, I am convinced it will die out very soon. There are other better games.

Develop what is unique and strongest in DX, that is how you will give it a purpose amongst so many other newer games.

For me, the GODZ server was a lot more fun to play on, than 0aug, whenever i join 0a, all i see is teabagging and whining on how pro they are and you must be cheating if you kill them, and vice versa.

I totally agree with you Shadow:

Shadowrunner wrote:If you maintain 0-aug in current form, with no grenades, bright arena maps, few admins, no room for anything except shooting people, I am convinced it will die out very soon. There are other better games.

I am on the same opinion for augs, the only difference is that there you must use the augs wisely, but well ballistic protection and speed f*cks the whole thing up. They just bunnyhop around to save bioenergy and regenerate themselves every second to maintain full hp, minutes of endless shooting, and when one of them die, then comes the teabagging and the ragequit.

I always enjoyed SG and GODZ a lot more than anything else.

Wheter you agree with me or not, i think DX is still the best game in its genre. No matter if you got a pentium3 or an i7 3,7k

I agree with all the 10 points Shadowrunner said in the last page, and with this also, because only mods can raise the amount of players in DXMP. The other way would be to remove spammers, and implement a vote ban or kick system; most of the new games have this feature.


Trust me or not, most of the new or popular MP games stay free from spammers, imposters, etc., because there are advanced features, advanced anti-cheat system, and players have the ability to report bad players, which you or your coder [A]lex should think about making.


Arx Genus was one of the most enjoyable mod for me, as well as Cozmo, Hengsha RPG, and SG.


From what I can say, some veterans/professionals who have been playing the game since 12 years actually never tried or played any DXMP mod. They are either too lazy to download the files the server has to, or they do have a limited usage of their internet. They have always kept their head in 0-aug and augs, but never went outside of that.


No offence, but yesterday my mod developer friend CyberP(http://www.moddb.com/mods/httpwwwmoddbcommodsgmdx) played DXMP for the first time, but some (not naming them) of your clan members and elitists were overkilling too much.


One funny thing is people keep repeating the map from Iceworld to Smuggler, and never play the rest of the maps. If there are more players, then a method for changing to big maps should be added, or the admin should change the map; otherwise, there will be spawn kills, mostly. Sometimes, there are like two or three players and they vote for Area 51 Bunker.


About veterans using Aqualung in Smuggler, you are probably inserting DXMP Revamp.



Here is some info about Hanfling's launcher:

Well client side, his executable does not change its speed when the processor is up/down clocked. However, if someone uses the standard DX executable, nothing can be done; the server should limit stuff like this.

Aaaah DXAG i still host that sometimes,and if there are players who join, i always host and play with them until they leave. Dxag is awesome:))
Plus i wanna say that i clearly enjoyed the time i spent on THC today, i got raped but i still enjoyed it. Thats dx^^

jager774 wrote:I am on the same opinion for augs, the only difference is that there you must use the augs wisely, but well ballistic protection and speed f*cks the whole thing up. They just bunnyhop around to save bioenergy and regenerate themselves every second to maintain full hp, minutes of endless shooting, and when one of them die, then comes the teabagging and the ragequit.

You seriously underrate augs, it's much more than that. And what do you mean by teabagging?

SpecX wrote:I agree with all the 10 points Shadowrunner said in the last page, and with this also, because only mods can raise the amount of players in DXMP. The other way would be to remove spammers, and implement a vote ban or kick system; most of the new games have this feature..

Vote kick will never work in DX as it'd get abused to *love*.

SpecX wrote:From what I can say, some veterans/professionals who have been playing the game since 12 years actually never tried or played any DXMP mod. They are either too lazy to download the files the server has to, or they do have a limited usage of their internet. They have always kept their head in 0-aug and augs, but never went outside of that.

I'm sure every single person who have played for 12 years have tried mods.

SpecX wrote: No offence, but yesterday my mod developer friend CyberP(http://www.moddb.com/mods/httpwwwmoddbcommodsgmdx) played DXMP for the first time, but some (not naming them) of your clan members and elitists were overkilling too much.

What do you mean by elitists?

SpecX wrote:I
One funny thing is people keep repeating the map from Iceworld to Smuggler, and never play the rest of the maps. If there are more players, then a method for changing to big maps should be added, or the admin should change the map; otherwise, there will be spawn kills, mostly. Sometimes, there are like two or three players and they vote for Area 51 Bunker.

People vote for Area because it's top of the mapvote, and if you press enter to ignore mapvote it'll automatically vote for A51.

By teabagging, i mean insulting others all the time.