It was on there previously, but I have since taken it off as I don't believe it is a 0-aug map per say, other maps may get the chop too, especially the bigger ones on the list.
No actually, only you keep postulating this theory.
It's your personal preference to port tiny non-dx maps, smaller than smuggler and give people no choice, that is why your maplist is different from THC's and why players actually vote different maps on THC.
Players on THC vote my maps, they vote CMD, they vote Zan Goh, they vote all kinds of map, not just new/tiny ones.
I respect your 0-aug preferences, but if you say "most people like small/tiny maps" then obviously be prepared for some differing opinions.
I strongly disagree with you and I see no reason for removing a FGS member's first map from a FGS server, mapvote server which has [FGS] on the title. As Krisz once said to me, "who are we?", let the players decide how big they like their maps. Otherwise I don't think FGS can decide what FGS mappers get hosted. This is why I had issues previously, and I'm sure any other mapper in FGS will feel the same, Whiplash might well leave the clan, if the clan isn't supporting or developing him.
In my opinion you tread on dangerous ground to try to push tiny non-DX maps on people, in a game which is desperate for new players, yet is one of the most loved single player games in the world. The lighting is unique, but these tiny maps make no use of that unique lighting system. The grenades are removed, tools are useless often, you're turning a 12 year old RPG action game into a contest of ping, fps and shooting with no augmentations and now this year, we remove the maps too and have maps from other games, which are too small to play DX on, just shooting now.
I just think your views are extreme to the point where removing a new member's first map is just too much?
Maybe it's time to give up on trying to make fight servers, until fps is fixed, make it fun, give players more choices.
no shitstorm or anything, freedom of speech and all that, just saying how I see it from the non 0-aug fan pov.
A few days ago I might have agreed with Shadow that chin was making up the "0 auggers want small simple maps" thing.
That was before I started playing again, seems that DX has really gone to **** since I've left. Literally, I went away for a few weeks and now only THC server is being played (other than Karkys) and maps like Sniperbox, Scoutsknives and IceWorld (though the latter has been common for a long time, the firs two were not). Over the last few days I've notice that kind of s**t being voted with depressing regularity.
Now I think you're both right, and while I did try to make Railways a good 0 Aug map, with lots of open space for fighting (it is basically one big, nicely detailed box, after all) and while I still wish Chinny would host it, I repsect that theres a lot of players that do indeed just want to playing boring maps good only for rifle/pistol combat.
I'm considering offering a serious alternative for 0 auggers though, a server with more complex maps and some explosives (e.g. LAMs and TNT) as well as turrets, emp grenades, things to be lockpicked etc.
I would like to change my mind and host Railways if the offer is still available Whip, I was too harsh before and would like to host your map as I know you have worked hard on it, I just need the latest version.
I'm still going to host the likes of Office and Turnpike as I believe they are decent maps, I wish the community was more accepting of more detailed maps.
I was much harsher with my words to you Chin, so I should apologize.
Definitely you should host Office.
My only observation on Turnpike is that the custom trees are identical. I think it would look better if there were different sizes/heights and angles/depths in the soil. Sizewise I think ok, it has turret, objective, maybe it could have more than a turret as objective or ctf type thing going on, some breakable walls, tnt, real urban battle map.
Turnpike_TheDayAfter - would love to do that, if it is up for editing. Or an SG version.
Or see a WW2 version, but to retro it to 1940s is beyond me.
People don't prefer small maps when there are a lot of them and a map is good,
but
people don't like uselessly segmented metropolis maps either.
Generally, when DXMP is mentioned we are talking about a game that revolves around scores and fragging, spending 10 minutes meticulously going through rooms that nobody visits, without seeing a single enemy, is a tell-tale sign of an unsuitable map. I don't even dare to say "unsuitably large", because even smaller maps can be pointlessly segmented like that.
Action needs to go around, and iceworld in my opinion is a fantastic blueprint for ANY size map; I sometimes jokingly call it a perfect map that isn't a map.
FGS 0a currently has some fantastic maps that even THC maplist doesn't have, but it also has couple crap and/or unsuitable maps. I've made a map suitability review for THC thread, and I think it also suits this thread well to link it here: http://thc.b1.jcink.com/index.php?showt ... entry19239
Is THC 0Augs a Gaming Deluxe server then?, if so perhaps we can think about having a joint ~THC~ [FGS] master 0-aug server.
My view on your list Ken.
THC 0A Maplist:
[GODZ]_BumTown.........................Unimpressive visuals, poor gameplay No Agreed
[GDDZ]_Castle..............................Just. No. NO! Agreed
[GODZ]_NoChanc_II's_SniperBox...Newb map, Training map, Amazing visuals No Agreed
DXMP_CMD...................................vanilla, ok map for full server Default, Maybe Would add personally
DXMP_Elevation.............................Boring but functional small map, Maybe Would leave out as you can shoot from spawnroom to spawnroom
Because of movement limitations it is even more boring than Iceworld, in spite of more complex architecture
DXMP_JCMental_sniper...................Either newbie training map, or metabolic end product map No Agreed
DXMP_MiniDust..............................Good small map, visuals good Recommended Agreed
DXMP_Pool....................................Good map with good visuals Recommended Agreed
DXMP_Scoutzknivez.......................Altfire, Lowgrav, alternative gameplay No Agreed
DXMP_Sector_3X...........................Ok small map with great visuals Recommended Would take off server as it doesn't have a good enough flow imo
DXMP_Silo.....................................Map for skilled players Default, Recommended Agreed
DXMP_Smuggler.............................Default, tried-and-tested battlemap Default, Yes Agreed
DXMP_Smuggles............................Barely functional for 0a, metabolic end product visuals No I like this map, but perhaps it should go
DXMP_Snow..................................Decent visuals, good gameplay Recommended Agreed
DXMP_Zan-Goh.............................Good battle map, visually unimpressive Recommended Agreed
DXMS_Dust...................................Ok battle map with ok visuals Yes Agreed - Although I'd love to fix the missallignments and take out some gas grenades!
DXMS_Foregone............................interesting, but probably meant for lowgrav or altfire, crappy for 0aNo Agreed
DXMS_Iceworld.............................Barebone fighting map with..icy visuals Yes Agreed
RTKM_Moenia................................crappy map, for many reasons No Agreed
RTKM_Spirit..................................In terms of gameplay, probably best map from this author Recommended Always felt this map was a little big, but it's a decent map
zDXMP_Area51Bunker....................Disproportionate advantage points Default, Maybe Personally I would take off as it's one of those maps where people will disconnect, used to be a classic though.
Suggestions & Other Maps:
DXMP_Turnpike............................Depends if movement is properly planned Not sure It's a map I've poured the most time into and therefore i will always have a sweet spot for it!
For many players, unusual for dxmp size servers; potentially with lot of trash rooms (does not bring action in) hence wasting time
DXMP_NoExit_beta2......................Potentially better alternative to DressingRoom and ZanGoh, Unimpressive visuals Worth Testing I would host this but it needs finishing
DXMP_Stalwart.............................Fantastic custom map, great visuals combined with great gameplay Definitely Recommended! Agreed
DXMP_Bound................................Fun simple map with ample possibilities Recommended Agreed
DXMP_DryD0ck.............................Works out as simplified Silo-A51 hybrid Maybe Agreed
DXMP_TunnelNetwork....................Poor gameplay for 0a, surprisingly fun in augs No I like this map but sure it's not the best layout for 0augs
DXMP_DressingRoom....................Simple map but provides surprising amount of options Yes, Maybe Agreed
DXMP_CS-Office...........................Quite good map Recommended Agreed
DXMP_Stalkyard...........................Good map with decent atmosphereRecommended Agreed
[GODZ]-CargoStation_Alpha2........1 corridor map with lot of rooms nobody uses, awful map No Agreed
DXMP_Towers...............................Old but good custom map best used with lot of players Yes I seemed to have forgotton about this map, I think it's more suitable to augs but it's wortha trial, FACE is an amazing mapper.
DXMS_Blockade............................Consists of two areas (lower, upper) with poor pathing inbetween No Agreed
DXMP_Siberia_Beta3.....................Large map that is better in augs, suspiciously big for 0a Maybe Agreed - Map is perhaps overly complicated, however if Anax would simplify and finish this map it could be great.
I think we are pretty much on the same page regarding maps.
To be honest I even agree with the few differences we have there, for example I haven't been able to figure Turnpike out well enough in spite of having played on it quite a few times, and I have mixed feelings about Smuggles. Towers is so-and-so and does provide great game play for advanced players, but the downside is that it also comes with possibilities of disappearing on the map for its entire length -- really just depends on who are playing, and in full server the campers are not difficult to see, as they frequently fire towards masses and make themselves visible.
Absolutely agree with Dust grenades, and I personally have always been bothered by the wall running there, but it has good action circulation and decent spawns.
Smuggles and DryD0ck both to a point suffer from detail of design, at times enough to create unpleasant atmosphere for 0a pace. Unsurprisingly both maps were really meant for augs, and there you can speed through said areas, making it look 2x smaller and thus acceptable.
Maps like Towers, Turnpike, Landernau, CMD, are all fine, if there is mapvote.
Maps like Pool, MiniDust, Iceworld, etc are all fine, if there is mapvote.
Landernau2 0-aug is much smaller than Office or Turnpike, I would like to see this get a fair trial.
The indicators for any server's admins should be:
-Not what people/aliasers say about the map in the first 24, but what they are voting a month later.
-If a map is removed, people asked for its return then why isn't hosted, if there is mapvote.
-If a player requested the idea/map design, it should at least get a trial somewhere.
-Hosting by multiple clans/servers is an indication the map is good for something.
The issue I've seen is when new players will vote something like Silly Fortress when there are 3 players in server.
I suggest a mapvote mutator which offers maps according to number of players in the server.
If admins are clever the "larger" list is peppered with a few classic popular medium maps too. Incentive to populate.
So for example,
if 3 or less players in server, only arena maps like Pool or MiniDust are available.
4 players and you get smuggler size onwards.
8 players and out comes office, turnpike, cmd, towers etc on the maplist.
Last edited by ShadowRunner on 12 Jan 2013, 15:55, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah I've hinted to this before, when I used to play Urban terror in my favourite German server, they set up a system of a small and large map rotation based on the number of people in the server at any one time. Ofcourse the down side is having 7 players (one short of your 8 limit) and them wanting to play a "bigger" map.
I think map vote with around 25 maps should be the limit for a 0 augs server, offering maps of all different sizes.
Well it allows more maps to be present but give a smaller list, also it makes everyone happy.
I think map vote with around 25 maps should be the limit for a 0 augs server, offering maps of all different sizes.
ouch! THC is closer to 40.
That offers little solace to any up and coming mapper, fighting for a handful of spare slots in the list, when there are more mappers than that. If your maplist is that small, be prepared for the fact there's 4-5 other guys who could easily run 0-aug server and yours would be empty for a while while people drift about between the servers. Sunny Side too gets used and that has huge maps like Ratesc. I really don't think size is the issue. I think it is impossible to dominate the scene with one 0-aug server that is permanently populated, people will always drift between 0-aug, THC and Sunny. THC has more maps and more varied maps encompassing a greater number of mappers and it is getting used more.
Looking at THC's list and the Godz stuff there, people always are asking for Ship, Hillz, I would add both, but not omaha or anything else Blade left off. Cargostation is quite tedious with 2-3 players too. There was GODZ and GM and DXMS. I think you need something like this to keep everyone happy.
I would just add that I think Ken described it well, too much of something is not good, neither is having 2 players on Area51 or Towers 3.
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